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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GeSuS_KRiST, Aug 1, 2008.

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  1. hammer_time

    hammer_time Banned

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    you are very right about the opinion thing....
    and right about the professional sports, but could you honestly say that the sport hasnt suffered do to commercialization? (any of them really), think back to a time when professional sports wasnt as popular, when you had to go to a stadium to watch......
    those guys practiced 5 nights a-week, traveled and played games on the weekends, and worked a full time job, because they played professional baseball for fun....

    would most professional athletes still do what they do now, if they had to do what they did back in the day? I doubt it, hell what major league sport hasnt went on strike because they dont get paid enough?
    it started with people who did for the love of the game, the feel of a bat in their hands, not millions of dollars, there are so many kids who play sports, just for scholarships, etc. etc., ill bet you kobe bryant would'nt play ball for 30,000 a year, and no fame.....

    honestly, i dont think making money off graff is bad, it who you let pay you, what their plans are for your work....

    the other thing, as mentioned before, they got pimped, those guys got paid maybe 5% of what some corporation made off of them.

    i just think there is something a little bit more special about the average writer, than the writer who has nothing to lose, and everything GIVEN to him..

    also i have no hatred towards anybody, i am a little sad to see how many of you would paint for Haliburton if they just paid you a little bit....
    but no hate, there is no reason to hate someone based on an opinion
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  2. Hobbes

    Hobbes Senior Member

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    I know the legal system works sllllooooowwwww as FUCK....

    But uhh, I'm kinda curious as to what is actually goin' on with it right now, I mean, he just got arrested, he said hes already been arrested "I don't know how many times"

    I don't know though, it doesn't look too good for him, mainly because they are cracking down on graffiti and 'crime' in general.

    You guys can say "oh their just prints in public places" but a judge is gonna want to see it differently, so he'll say "oh well his prints are at all these spots and blah blah blah I have bad judgment so I'm a judge" or whatever judges say.

    But like everyone has already said, he's most likely going to be paying fines out the ass.

    I mean, they're not entirely dim, they're probably gonna realize "hey this guy is kinda a popular and talented artist, hes got corporations to back him up, lets just milk him for all his worth and maybe give him a light sentence"

    and then all the kids who buy revok's shit will be the ones paying for it. Or he'll make a canvas or some shit and sell it to some snob art prick for a bunch of G's.

    I think you should all let this be a lesson to you, COVER YOUR TRACKS COMPLETELY. They will use any evidence they can to arrest, and convict you, especially if you get up a lot.

    Just because your prints aren't in the system, doesn't mean they won't ever be. Chances are, if your an illegal graffiti writer and you steal a lot to support your habit, and probably do drugs to enhance the experience, and maybe some other illegal shit, you're going to get arrested. Don't let something stupid like an arrest for a misdemeanor pot charge let them bring everything else illegal you've ever done come back to you.

    And yeah, revok is big...but uhh, they do this kind of shit for lil toys too, it pisses them off more when your shit looks wack I think.

    Remember kids, the government and its thugs are delusional, psychopathic, and narcissistic, and I don't mean that in a good way :p
  3. BIGel

    BIGel Elite Member

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    what nobody is mentioning is that msk, and revok in particular, has said repeatedly is that he understands that what he does for money and what he does on the streets are two different animals. there is a line between making money and being a media whore, but with the exception of cope i dont think many have crossed it. revok has repeatedly said that what he does for cash and what he does on the street are not the same. he recognizes the fact that what he does legally is not graffiti in its pure form, if the public in general are seeing it and interpreting it as that, then who gives a shit?!? most writers are writing in the context of their own culture, for their own people, and fuck what everybody else thinks. if they cared so much about what the public thought you wouldnt be writing in the first place.

    graffiti would be a lot better off if alot of you came down off your high horses and realized that the core of this culture knows the difference between commercial and street level graffiti. those that dont know will find out or will fade out. thats how its been and how it will be for every subculture that attracts its fifteen minutes in the sun, if some of us are talented enough to use our skills to make something on the side, than i think it takes a real elitest to say otherwise. he's put in time, he's put in alot of time doing this on the street, and he continues to. i think its great he's made it to the point he can take advantage of a system that will actually pay him to paint.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  4. Proper

    Proper Elite Member

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    I don't think any sport has suffered due to this. As a matter of fact, I think sports are better nowadays. Maybe not in the money-situation but overall, yes.

    Just because you make money off of something doesn't mean you don't care about it or love it any less than someone who doesn't. MLS soccer players make on average 76,000 dollars per year. That's nothing compared to the multi-millions that any other athlete makes. Most of them won't get the chance to play abroad and they play for the love of the game. Furthermore, football players in countries such as, Haiti, Nicaragua, and a lot of other third world countries hardly make a living off of playing for their national team and club. Most of them practice two-a-days and still have to hold down jobs to feed their families. Now, let's say someone from one of those countries after playing for love and essentially no money was offered a couple millions to play professionally and they wouldn't have to kill themselves working other measly jobs to get by that they should turn down that offer because a couple of other athletes still don't make any money off of it? Sure, whenever they become multi-millionaires they demand more money but don't you think beside that greed factor (everyone has it) that it's because they just want to be unable to unsure the well-being of their family if they get injured? Some athletes were raised in poverty and now are BLESSED to be abled to provide for their families, you can't bash them for that. BTW, a lot of them third world athlete never make it famous and they still dedicate themselves to their beloved sport. Graffiti artist are not so different from athletes; they dedicate themself to something, put in a lot of time, go unpayed for a while and then if they get good enough make some cash.

    My whole purpose bringing in athletes is just to make you realize that they do it for the love of the game and are just being rewarded for their much wanted/needed skills.

    Companies pay anyone who is good at their talent in order to make more money for themselves.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  5. BIGel

    BIGel Elite Member

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    most intelligent thing said in this thread thus far. agree 100%
  6. IlikePie

    IlikePie Elite Member

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  7. South-Pole

    South-Pole Elite Member

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  8. Mr yarbles

    Mr yarbles Elite Member

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    Because when you've been booked for graffiti and they know what you write there's a few videos and pictures of you doing it and your face is in the video there's a probable cause that those cans can be used for graff, he also might have left some latex gloves behind after painting and the gt the prints out of those.
    But I doubt the trials will stick, becuase your right that there really isn't much evidence against them, and revok will probably have a good lawyer.
    Idk about buket though
  9. hammer_time

    hammer_time Banned

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    1. the only people who want/need graffiti enough to pay for it are people who have no good intentions for it, and in the end will harm graff....
    same with sports.....
    all the companies who sponser and put up the money to pay those people, dont have their best intrests in mind....
    why put money into the pockets of those people?

    2. "Companies pay anyone who is good at their talent in order to make more money for themselves." you dont see anything wrong with that?
    sounds to me like some companies are pimping those willing to hoe out....
    not to mention when shit hits the fan those companies are gonna be the first ones to name, names, and get as far away form graff as possible....

    3. you are right there are people who do it for the love, but as your very own post points out, MOST of the people who do it purely for fun wont ever be famous, rich, or even that well known...
  10. hammer_time

    hammer_time Banned

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    in response to your first paragraph, knowing that your selling out, and trying to keep it real at the same time, and you recognize the difference, doesnt make it OK, IMO it makes it worse.

    in response to your second paragraph...
    the core of this culture doesnt have a commercial scene, and a street scene, the core of this culture is based around taking space from the people who abuse the public sphere with their crap, not being in cahoots with them and helping them do that, or walking a tight rope between a suit and tie, and jeans and a paint stained shirts.....

    its cool this is gonna turn into a bunch of people repeating themselves, but i know who's gonna go stand in line at JC Penny when revok in conjucture with south pole drop the new "hip hop sack" back pack, with room for 9 cans, 7 markers, an mp3 player, and it has built in street cred cuz revok tagged the back pocket, just remember when you pay for it, dont feel bad, your supporting the culture
  11. sketch3

    sketch3 Banned

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    the core of the culter isnt about sticking i to the man and reclaming public property,
    its about paintng art on stuff thats outside ur house so strangers will see it,

    it just happens to piss jimmy pig snout of
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  12. Hobbes

    Hobbes Senior Member

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    You know how much pro athletes get paid? Too much, if you ask me. Why do they get to live in fucking MANSIONS for playing a sport? Whats wrong with paying them...100k/year, instead of multi million and billion dollar deals? Like shit, what the fuck?

    Its one thing to make money off something you love, enough money to feed yourself and your family, and continue doing it.

    Its a whole 'nother world to be making way more money than you really need. Thats what pisses me off about bitchy artists who say "ooh people STEAL our music online!" what the fuck, you WANT them to listen to your goddamn music, they listen to it for free on the radio, but when they wanna burn a goddamn CD to listen to it all the time because their a fan, then your all up in arms?

    Artists are fucking greedy. I think its only cool to make a shit ton of money, if you give a shit ton back. If I was rich that's what I'd do.

    How come none of these 'rich/sellout' graff writers are erecting huge ass walls for all the local kids to go paint? Shit, that'd be the first thing I would do. Shit, that'd be a place for me myself to practice so why not?

    If you ask me, selling out is called 'selling out' for a reason. I'd rather 'buy in' to my culture and give back to it.
  13. hammer_time

    hammer_time Banned

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    alot of their money comes from doing shit totally unrelated to the sports

    ie whoreing for commercial, putting their face and signature on shoes, and dishsoaps and shit
  14. sketch3

    sketch3 Banned

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    so anyone with an indorsment or anyone whos sponsered for anything is a whore,

    the fact of the matter is the big corpirations are gunna be around making money no matter what,
    if boost coudnt get a graff artist then they woulda made a new campainge with rock music in the background or somethin,

    art is art no atter if its on a scap peice o paper or a huge billbord for toothpaste...
    saying somone dosnt have love for the game because there making money from it is just stupid
  15. Roolete

    Roolete Elite Member

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    hammertime, if some big corporation offered you a ton of money for doing something you liked, wouldn't you sell out? or would you rather have a job you hate all your life?
  16. sketch3

    sketch3 Banned

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    he likes his job hes self employed....

    and no he wouldnt hes to real
  17. BIGel

    BIGel Elite Member

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    and WHEN he crosses that line THEN i will begin to lose respect for him, until then i wont..he's using the system thats using him, and if your too much of an elitest to realize that thats ALL it is then your probably a socialist as well.

    get off your high horse, he's making money doing something he's good at and he loves. i have enough faith in this culture that those who belong here can seperate the commercial and street aspects of it. because whether your idealistic ass realizes it or not the commercial side is a part of graffiti, and its a part of art in general, and making money from people who are trying to capitalize on the graffiti explosion isnt immoral at all. the people who buy that "revok" hip hop sack arent the ones who belong here anyway.
  18. C3ZR ONE

    C3ZR ONE Moderator

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    I'm only disputing this because I see the point he's trying to make here.. No one is questioning Revok's talent, or whether he's paid his dues. Here's the key point tho.....

    "saying someone doesn't love the game because they're making money off it is just stupid."
    If you really love the game, don't you have a responsibility to see to it's best interest?

    Whether or not a corporation like Boost mobile has love for the game or not is more in question than whether or not Revok does. It's hard to dispute the fact that Revok Loves graff. He's put so much into it. I already stated he is my favorite graff artist based on his work, not his ethics (and I'm still determining whether or not I question those, but in the end it doesn't matter what my conclusion is because I'm such a small piece of the puzzle, but we all have oppinions...) But as Hammer stated, you have to think about who you're selling to and if it harms the game you love... Is Boost harming anything? I dunno. Does it really matter that Revok is getting such a small percentage of the profit? In my mind, not really, if he's happy with it. The key is, does the advertisements he creates, influence more people that aren't neccesarilly needed or desired in this culture, inspired to take part in it, without having the respect that comes with the people who are influenced to take it up by what they see on the street? That may be a bit garbled... I have a buzz on.
    When things are marketed, they are watered down. They aren't shown the proper respect deserved to them. Sure Revok gives credibility to marketing. He's down as fuck. I'm gonna flip it even better here.....

    It's not whether or not writers understand the difference between commercial graff and street graff that matters, like BIG EL said, what matters is the general public audience that's influenced by it and doesn't know the difference that's bringing damage, and writers need to be aware of THAT! Revok makes some cash, and in all honesty, I think it's well deserved, but Hammers point is, in the process of that he's chipped a piece of the culture away, because Joe Shmoe 15 yr. old who doesn't know shit but saw that flashy ad and 5000 of his friends want to go drop bombs and get us all heated. THAT"S THE PROBLEM. and being aware of that and still cashing in puts your love of the art in question. Your true love.

    I forgot the word for when you say one thing and do the other, but I feel dumb for saying all this when I add to the problem, but communicating your ideas is the first step to learning a better way...
  19. sketch3

    sketch3 Banned

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    i think u mean ur being the devils advocet,
    so am i

    i get ur point about boss mobiel and gettin up inspirng lame kids,
    but truthfuliy if u dont have love for graffiti ur not gunna do it, who s gunna be bothered climbing rooftops and runing from storeowners at 3 am just to look cool, sure they might at first but they wont keep it up.... so after about half a year of 100 kids who watched tha add and started bombing 99 wil quit, leaving the one dope dedicated kid

    its hard to sellout in graffiti cuss realy know oness suposed to know who u are,
    revok and cope broke the rules....revok got nabbed.

    its a whole lot easier to let record companies influence ur music than sum tv station tell u wat u can and cant paint illeagaly on the street when no ones watchin
  20. hammer_time

    hammer_time Banned

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    i believe the word your searcing for is hypocrit, but basically i appreciate that you are getting the point i am making, i dont dislike revok, i dont dislike making money off of graff, or the people that choose to do it, those who do it for people who have no concern for the future of graff, and are hear to rape many graff stores are around now, that were there post 98?

    to take an underground culture, that was started by people tired of corporate crap, city politics, financially based institutions, and backward systems, and to work with people who in 5 years will probably contribute to the cleaning of graff when it isnt cool anymore, seems dirty to me.

    and no matter how up you get, graff writers are by nature secretive,
    we can go for years with police trying to find us, and still remain unknown....

    do you really think these companies somehow found these writers, or that these writers sought out people to "use" their skills?

    do what you want, its not really my business, and i cant stop anyone, but dont bitch when you cant paint in 5 years......

    .......except at the odd ymca that has a legal wall painting ceremony during black history month
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008